Packed full of info, don’t miss this episode focused on all things cannabis marketing! Lisa Buffo, Founder and CEO of the Cannabis Marketing Association (CMA), shares her journey into the cannabis industry, the founding of CMA, and the critical role of storytelling in effective cannabis marketing. She and Guillermo delve into the nuances of cannabis marketing, strategies for overcoming stigma and misinformation about cannabis, and practical tips for enhancing marketing efforts in cannabis businesses.
“You must have a good story. If you have a good story and you pair it with a thoughtful strategy, then you can get the unicorn concept that everyone wants: virality and fast growth.” – Lisa Buffo
The finer details of this episode:
Episode resources:
Timestamps:
Guest Introduction (00:00:27)
The host introduces Lisa Buffo, emphasizing her achievements and the significance of storytelling in cannabis marketing.
Lisa Buffo’s Background (00:02:24)
Lisa shares her journey into the cannabis industry and the founding of the Cannabis Marketing Association in 2016.
Early Career Experiences (00:02:41)
Lisa discusses her initial work with service dogs and veterans, highlighting the impact of storytelling and social media.
Transition to Cannabis Marketing (00:06:35)
Lisa explains her move to Colorado and how she began working in the cannabis industry after its legalization.
Founding the Cannabis Marketing Association (00:08:31)
Lisa recounts the inception of CMA, initially aimed at self-education, which evolved into a full-fledged organization.
Importance of Storytelling in Marketing (00:10:30)
Lisa reflects on the significance of storytelling over marketing strategy in creating impactful connections.
Overcoming Marketing Challenges (00:12:43)
Lisa shares insights on how good storytelling can drive marketing success and address common challenges faced by businesses.
Learning and Practicing Storytelling (00:15:16)
Lisa discusses the necessity of practice and authenticity in storytelling, emphasizing the human connection.
Addressing Imposter Syndrome (00:18:20)
Lisa acknowledges the challenges individuals face in sharing their stories and the importance of recognizing their value.
Understanding Accelerator Programs (00:20:54)
Lisa introduces accelerator programs, explaining their role in supporting startups, particularly in the cannabis industry.
Here are the extracted timestamps and their titles from the podcast episode transcription segment:
Understanding Accelerators (21:03)
Discussion on the structure and purpose of business accelerators, particularly in the cannabis industry.
Learning and Community in Accelerators (21:57)
Insights on the learning environment and peer support within accelerator programs for cannabis startups.
Storytelling in Fundraising (22:59)
Emphasis on the critical role of storytelling in securing funding for cannabis startups.
Diverse Backgrounds of Founders (24:23)
Overview of the varied backgrounds of cannabis startup founders and their unique challenges.
Industry Education in Cannabis (24:52)
Focus on the need for industry education regarding regulations and history in the cannabis sector.
Importance of Communication (26:58)
Reflection on the significance of effective communication in fundraising and business storytelling.
Evolution of the Cannabis Marketing Association (27:59)
Description of the initial gatherings and the transition towards a more formal association structure.
Challenges in Establishing Nonprofit Status (30:59)
Overview of the difficulties faced in obtaining nonprofit status for the Cannabis Marketing Association.
Advocacy and Member Engagement (33:01)
Discussion on the effective advocacy efforts and resources provided to members of the association.
Understanding Marketers' Power (35:10)
Highlighting the influence of marketers in shaping public perception and addressing stigma around cannabis.
Tactical Needs of Cannabis Marketers (36:21)
Identification of the practical challenges cannabis marketers face, including regulatory issues and advertising restrictions.
Resources for Navigating Regulations (41:14)
Overview of resources and guides provided to members to help navigate marketing regulations in the cannabis industry.
Cannabis Success Show Episode Timestamps
The Importance of Learning from Each Other (00:42:05)
Discussion on the evolving cannabis industry and the value of shared experiences among marketers.
Creating Content and Resources (00:43:03)
Overview of webinars and resources provided to assist marketers in navigating compliance and legal issues.
Marketing Budget Challenges (00:44:11)
Insight into tight marketing budgets in cannabis due to profitability and tax challenges.
Hiring a Marketing Strategist (00:45:31)
Emphasis on the need for a responsible strategist linked to business goals in marketing efforts.
Evaluating Marketing Professionals (00:46:19)
Advice on asking the right questions and checking references when hiring marketing professionals.
The Partnership in Marketing Relationships (00:48:32)
Discussion on the importance of understanding and collaboration between businesses and marketing professionals.
Learning from Marketing Mistakes (00:49:47)
A cautionary tale about a marketing blunder that nearly cost a cannabis retailer their license.
Connecting with the Cannabis Marketing Association (00:52:17)
Information on how to get involved with the Cannabis Marketing Association and available resources.
Personal Connections and Networking (00:54:38)
Encouragement to connect with Lisa Boafo on LinkedIn for networking opportunities.
Closing Thoughts and Resources (00:55:08)
Final remarks on the importance of sharing resources and supporting each other in the cannabis industry.
Intro (00:00:02) Welcome to the Cannabis Success Show. If you're a cannabis company owner or operator who's ready to scale your business, grow your profits and plant the seeds to take your business to new heights. This show is for you. We'll share expert insights, industry trends, and actionable strategies to help you blaze a trail of success in the cannabis industry.
Guillermo (00:00:27) We have a great episode today. We have a great guest. Lisa is the founder and CEO of the Cannabis Marketing Association. CMA is a membership-based organization that's focused on education and best practices for industry marketers, with a vision of rebranding cannabis at a global level. Make sure you listen to the episode. We really go into that vision that she talks that CMA has for the industry. She was named one of 20 1940 and under Rising Stars in Cannabis by Marijuana Venture magazine in 2019 and named the marketing guru by Women in Weed magazine. We go into the episode about storytelling. The theme of this episode has been is really the importance of storytelling and how to get started in that journey, how it's a key part of success as a cannabis operator or as a service provider.
Guillermo (00:01:22) So, make sure you listen to some of her tips on that. And lastly, she goes into the nuances of cannabis marketing and how to find resources around compliance. And she tells a great story at the very end of the episode, on what can go wrong if you're not working with an experienced marketing professional. We wrap up the episode with some tips on what to look out for when you're choosing a service provider. On the marketing piece of your business. And that's what's coming up next on this episode, so enjoy the episode. Welcome to the Cannabis Success Show. Today we'll be talking about cannabis marketing. This is the first time we've had a marketing expert, particularly in the cannabis space on the show. So, I'm really excited about today's episode. We have Lisa Boafo. She is the founder and CEO of the Cannabis Marketing Association, and she's also the host of. I encourage you to check out her podcast, which is Party Like a marketer. So, Lisa, thanks so much for being on the show today.
Lisa (00:02:24) Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
Guillermo (00:02:27) Yeah. And so, before we get into the conversation, I always like to ask, can you give us your, your background or your story of how you got started in the cannabis industry? Kind of just take us through that journey.
Lisa (00:02:41) Yeah. So, long journey, but I'll try to keep it succinct, but so I started CMA in 2016, and I started in the cannabis industry in 2014. So, I've been in the industry about ten years now, which for for me has been about the majority of my career. I had always growing up and interested in entrepreneurship and knew at some point I wanted to start my own business, but I didn't know when or how. So early in my career, I did a lot of experimental things with startups and early stage companies to help learn what it was like to start a business. I actually my first go, I worked at a it was a startup nonprofit, but I worked with service dogs and veterans who were coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Lisa (00:03:28) So, I actually worked out of Walter Reed Military Hospital in Washington, D.C., and I was working with veterans who had post-traumatic stress and traumatic brain injury. And we were doing, it was a model around service dog. So, we had vets who had traumatic brain injuries, train service dogs for vets who had physical impairments. And at the time it was a newer therapy and a newer kind of modality for, for treating what are those more hidden, you know, mental, things that are not really at the time were not addressed as well as they are today. But that got me into alternative medicine and different ways of helping folks, particularly with mental health issues, with physical issues. But my role, I did that role right out of college. And so, I was like the social I did social media. I did a lot of things. But one of the things with social media and I worked with the service dogs, that was part of my job. but I would take pictures of the dogs.
Lisa (00:04:29) I would put them on Instagram. They started to get a following, and then we started kind of like running with that. So, we would dress the dogs up. And then the following grew even more. And that coincided with something the nonprofit did. But basically, we started streaming the dogs live online, just hanging out and living their life. But long story short, that stream and that social media feed ended up going viral. and it changed everything for the organization. We were able to raise so much money. We got so much more attention on the studies we were trying to get funded. We were able to tell the story a little more accurately about this therapy and how it really worked for veterans, and it played on the, like the warrior ethos of always helping a brother. You never leave one behind. So, there was this really amazing model to what the nonprofit was doing. But the element of social media, combined with good storytelling, combined with, a level of virality, essentially turned into this amazing use case for how marketing, done right, can absolutely transform an organization.
Lisa (00:05:35) So, I kind of got hooked on marketing and really storytelling through that because I saw just enormous results across the board of how much that can change a small business. Or they're a nonprofit, but an organization and help them grow and help get their mission across. So, I did that for a little bit, and then I started working with early stage tech startups, in the Midwest in Cleveland at the time. But I worked for a tech accelerator, and I was running Kickstarter campaigns. I was helping consult early stage companies on their social strategy and their early marketing and go to launch, go to market strategy. So, I was doing taking a lot of what I learned there and helping apply it into different use cases, but still early stage at that point for profit organizations. And then I was considering going through one of the accelerator myself, the one I was working for at the time when, cannabis legalized in Colorado. And while they legalized in 2012, at this point, it was 2014. And I was like, I just I don't want to stay in Cleveland.
Lisa (00:06:35) I grew up there. I want to do something different, but I want to combine my interest in marketing and alternative medicine and this really new and exciting field that's coming. And I had been a cannabis consumer. I had seen it really help people personally in my life who had struggled with a host of different issues that's another story. But. So, I moved to Colorado. I moved to Colorado in 2014. I started my first job in the space. I actually started trimming. I didn't know anybody in Colorado. I got my badge. I just started working immediately and getting like hands on experience. That lasted about a month. And then there was another accelerator. It was the first accelerator in cannabis at the time. So, this was spring of 2015 that was doing their inaugural class. And I, I, they were looking for help. I started working for them. I had been doing it before. And then at the end of that cohort, I joined one of their portfolio companies as their chief marketing officer, and I helped grow and launch that company that was also B2B SaaS for about a year, year and a half.
Lisa (00:07:36) But I started CMA on the side, so I was trying to take all my marketing lessons from everything I had done before and apply it into cannabis and was just constantly hitting walls like nothing I knew how to do, I could do in this industry. so, I kind of desperately started asking colleagues, other marketers in the space like how do you do this? How do you pull this off? You know, what do you do when your Instagram account gets shut down? Granted, 2014 was like very different than today. There was I mean; it was very wild west, and no one really knew what was going on. So, the only way to understand what you could do is just ask those with experience and a really simplified way. So, we started I started hosting these meetings after work at at the office I was at the time and just inviting other marketing colleagues in cannabis, and we called it Cannabis Marketing Association because like, not kidding. Though it sounded professional to not really even know what an association was or what it did.
Lisa (00:08:31) It was, and it was not supposed to be the business I started, but it ended up taking a world of its own, and a lot of other kind of stars aligned for it to move and me to go end up going with it full time a few years later. But it started. Just the intention was to help me educate myself as a CMO and do better in this space. But then there was basically a need right away. And so, we just kind of kept going with it. And it's been eight years since we started. But that's to answer your question, that's how I got into cannabis and marketing and specifically into this role.
Guillermo (00:09:05) Yeah. And it sounds like from your story that some of these things happened maybe a little bit before that you realized they were happening, it sounds like, because when you talked about the experience that you had with, with live streaming and how that then led to, just becoming more well known, was that something that that you expected? Because, like, right now, I think of my myself, a lot of folks, you know, in all kinds of professions, I would say predominantly in the service industry, you know, you have brilliant accountants, brilliant doctors, but not very good at marketing or understand it or know the nuances or how difficult it can be to get well known for your to get known for your services.
Guillermo (00:09:47) Like I want to start a business like you mentioned, being an entrepreneur, that is the most difficult part of it. You may have a great service, a great product, but nobody knows about it. Right? So, I kind of backed into it myself where I was. I had to learn about marketing much later in life. I worked in corporate and then was self-employed for a while, so I went through that whole thing of like, oh, what do I do now? but did you know that when you were doing that, that essentially that's what you were doing? Did you have the intention or was this something that happened, by surprise, that that you would know that you would get that much of a following or, that it would be that effective from a marketing standpoint?
Lisa (00:10:30) I think the only intention I've really ever had in my career was I always tried to be second and second hand to a founder. So, I was always just trying to absorb as much information as possible from founders, from every way I could.
Lisa (00:10:46) starting from when I was a teenager until really, I started going with CMA. So in that role, I had the opportunity to be, you know, that second just kind of right there, I guess that person who I wasn't like second in the chain, but I was like the directly assisting the leaders on, how to understand every, every bit about how running an organization works. And it just so and no, I was the fresh out of college, understood social media and knew how to create an Instagram account. So, it just naturally fell into my lap where everyone else I worked with was, you know, 15 plus years older than me at the time. So, I was just doing what I knew how to do. And I, I grew up in the time where, like, I kind of grew up with social media, where I didn't have it in childhood, but got to experience Facebook when it first started and then Instagram and all these things and sort of watched it evolve and grew. So, I inherently knew it and how it worked to some degree.
Lisa (00:11:42) But I had never had that type of experience. And honestly, at the time, virality wasn't quite the thing that it is today. There really wasn't influencers in that sense. It was still the early days of Instagram. but it was the camera and the dogs and the story, and it was. And it was honestly less what was so interesting and compelling in one of my core philosophies at CMA as it was less the market. Maybe this is a hot take. It was less the marketing strategy than it was how good the story was. You have to have a good story, and if you have a good story and you pair it with a thoughtful strategy, that's how you can get sort of this unicorn, concept that everyone wants a virality and, you know, fast growth. But you have to have a really good story at a at a minimum. And that had all the elements of a good story with the veterans and the service dogs and what they were doing, for mental health. And at the time we were we were in a state park.
Lisa (00:12:43) So, we actually did a lot of the treatment out of the hospital and in nature. So, it had all these elements of the good story. And then we layered social media, we layered the timing of what was happening culturally like. All of it just kind of aligned really well. So, I would like to take more credit for it, but I just can't at all because it really wasn't anything I want to say that I did, but it was those elements that all ended up lining up. And then once I was able to see that and process that, understand that that did happen by chance to some degree. But also, you can in some ways, you can create it if you've got the right elements, and you think about it. But the one thing I have noticed is that so many of the conversations I have with marketing lack the first step, which is what is the story that we're telling. And so, I see a lot of people put a lot of effort into strategy. And the number one question I get asked at CMA is, where's the best place to advertise my product? And I'm like, that is question number ten.
Lisa (00:13:41) I need to ask you one through nine before I can even answer that. So that's what I've what I learned from that experience. But it was not something by any means I intended, or the organization intended to do. But it happened, and I learned a lot from that.
Guillermo (00:13:54) Yeah, storytelling is so important. And you wouldn't think this about accountants and CPAs and CFOs, but a big part of our training, when working with clients, is learning how to tell the story about the financial statements. But a lot of it sounds like even, marketers or business owners don't yet know the importance. I mean, we all tell stories. We know about it. we're talking about we remember them, right? And it's a it's a really good way to communicate. but it's really something that all kinds of professionals could really use some work on. Right. And how to story tell whether it's about your services or in the actual delivery of your services, like presenting financial statements, to a client, the first thing you want to know is what is the story of what really happened, right? And be able to tell that really well to communicate effectively to the person.
Guillermo (00:14:53) And you learn this by experience. But if you're teaching others how to story tell, maybe clients or maybe other professionals within the marketing, has there been anything that outside of your, you know, direct experience that has really helped you learn how to learn, how to story, tell how to communicate in that way that has worked well for you?
Lisa (00:15:16) Yeah. few things. One is like taking all the seriousness and pressure off. I think when there's this performance element of, I mean, there is a way to be. I was also, I, I majored in psychology, but I minored in English and in English. I learned that there is there is a formula for it, right. Every story has the intro. And then there's the buildup and then there's the conflict. And then the conflict plays out and you come down on the other side of the curve, and then there's the resolution, and then there's the happy ending. There is like a script to some degree, but I think and that works really well in movies and TV and Hollywood and books and, and we all love stories like that.
Lisa (00:15:56) But at the same time, so many of the things we do of our human experiences maybe aren't that linear or aren't that neat. and people are afraid to really speak openly and honest about whatever story it is they're trying to tell. And there's always a degree to which you have to decide what you're comfortable with. But people resonate with things they can relate to and things they can relate to are honest human experiences which are not necessarily beautifully packaged. Marketing can be that element of packaging it, but as far as like a step one, it's, I think, allowing a bit of a stream of consciousness, allowing yourself to speak it, allowing yourself to hear yourself speak it, gauge an audience reaction, understand resonates, get some feedback. In a lot of practice, like a lot of practice. The more you can do it. Small audience, big audience, important audience, casual audience. Whether it's one person or 100 people, allows you to really hone it in and dial it in. and then just kind of really just taking it from there.
Lisa (00:17:00) It's something I've very much into it, because if it is your story in particular, you're the only one who's going to ever know to be able how to tell that. And a brand and a lot of brands in the industry. What I love about this industry is I meet so many founders in this space, operators, retailers, brands. And I go like, why did you start your business? And they have some amazing story, like some amazing story, something cannabis somehow impacted their life in some really profound way is some story. And they're not always huge stories, but they everyone's got a story, and I hear it and I'm like, that's such an amazing story. And I don't see any I don't get any of that from, you know, your brand or yourmarketing, even though there's elements to it. so, I think one just getting comfortable owning it and telling it however you can and then practice. But it's a it's an ever evolving. It's ever evolving. Because I do think your storytelling skills evolve as you mature, and you have more life experiences, and you have different perspective and space from the story you're telling to.
Guillermo (00:18:06 ) Yeah. Do you find that people have a hard time overcoming that, like kind of imposter syndrome of telling your story of you know, talking about, you know, where you've been? Is that is that do you do you see that?
Lisa (00:18:20) Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think there's a lot of that. There's a lot of, in particularly at work and in a business setting, like, you know, this isn't the place or I have nothing valuable to add or my story doesn't matter. So yeah, I do think there is an element of that. but for business owners in particular, I think it is really important to know what your story is. and even if you don't have one, if you're building, you know, quote unquote, I think everyone does, whether they really know it or not. But if you are building a brand, you are telling like you're telling a story. That's to me what brand building is. It is story telling you. If you think about any of the brands you know and like.
Lisa (00:19:01) And if I were to say, Guillermo, tell me about like, what's the story you get from Apple? You would start saying something. You would have these associations with that. That is a story. Right? So, you are doing that in business, whether you think of it that way or approach it that way. But I do think that's the simplest and most authentic way to approach it. And also, what resonates with customers, because customers are people and that's how people relate.
Lisa (00:19:28) Yeah.
Guillermo (00:19:28) And you mentioned that first that first step there is telling it right. So, overcoming that, I don't want to tell my story or any, any kind of limiting beliefs around, around telling the story. And the second part of, of that is the reps that you talked about, right, is doing it over and over. And just like anything else that it's going to take some time to get better at the communication, but you might as well be intentional about it as, as we're talking about this, this is a totally organic topic that we just came across here.
Guillermo (00:20:02) Yeah. but I'm looking on my desk and I have this book called The Narrative Gym, and it's, I've done some, some work around this, and it has a picture of weights, because the big part of this is the reps is, is the, the work that goes around telling the story and communicating, you know, your values and how how people are going to be able to, to resonate with that. So, I appreciate you sharing that. and can we go back to you mentioned an accelerator program and working with startups for those who aren't familiar with, you know, our firm does a lot of work with, with startups. But for those who aren't familiar with these programs, can you talk a little bit about what is an accelerator program, how it works, how you get involved with that? whether helping or being an actual participant in that, in the cannabis space especially.
Lisa (00:20:54) Yes. So, accelerators, I want to say they started in the tech space probably about maybe 20 plus years ago.
Lisa (00:21:03) actually, I think one of the first ones, Techstars, was in Colorado, but they are 12-week business boot camps. So, you spend 12 weeks or more or less, everyone does it a little bit differently, but it's short term. So, 12-week business boot camp and they are funds. Most of them are fun. So, they're giving money. So, you would apply to an accelerator or the fund however they call it. and the ones I worked at were early stage. So it would be, hey, I have this idea to do X and but you're in a pre-revenue stage, but you have this idea, and you need to build it. And you apply to these funds for money, usually around $20,000. I've seen them go as high as $50,000. I've seen less than that. But like really seed early money, which is not a lot of money when it comes to starting and getting a business off the ground, but it's to test and validate the idea. So, you have 12 weeks to come up with your pitch deck, write a plan.
Lisa (00:21:57) start to get a product ready to go to market, starts to test it, start to interview customers, and then and then over those 12 weeks, there's a curriculum. So, the managers of the accelerator or fund are usually experienced entrepreneurs who have sold a business, or they've had some type of success, and now they're investing money. and you learn different things each week, but you're also in a community environment. So, there's a cohort of ten or so companies. It's usually like 10 to 12. The ones I've worked for, I've worked for three at this point. and so, you also get to be with peers who are building businesses at the same stage, and you can ask questions and bounce ideas off each other. And then the accelerator will also pair you with mentors. So, they usually have a network. and it might be specific to, you know, software or the one I worked in is cannabis. And so, they have a network, and they will pair you with mentors in the network that help you get as ready as possible in those 12 weeks, like go through your business bootcamp and then usually at the end, the goal is to raise a round.
Lisa (00:22:59) So, usually a seed round, but some type of follow-on money. So, you can take this idea to the next level, but you need to prove it out in some way, shape or form, and then be able to tell the story to go raise money. Because at the seed stage when you're saying, hey, I need $1 million to launch this software product, you've done some testing, you've created some type of MVP or minimum viable product. But really, the ones who get funded are the ones who tell the best story like it is partly about building the business, but it is also when you are convincing investors and you're raising money and you're planning to do something, you have to be able to communicate that. So, and we actually learned a lot. We learned some story telling elements in the accelerator as well because that's really what a pitch deck is. when you when you're just at that early stage of building a company. But it's a way to in a short period of time, force yourself to get something out the door and learn a lot.
Lisa (00:23:53) They're really great programs if you can find the right one.
Guillermo (00:23:55) Yeah. Is there anything that you see like as a common denominator. So, most of these are startups or they're brand-new business owners for the most part the participants. Is there anything that really stood out on the cannabis side that it's like, That the participants really learned from the program or that it was like, well, this was like a really common theme, whether it be like regulation or was it marketing? or was it just all kind of all-around that.
Lisa (00:24:23) It was a little bit all around. And early-stage startups also mean the founders are, I mean, fresh out of college, 60 years old, and has had a career in corporate America, you know, has a background in software, has a background in marketing. So, everyone is coming from a different, their own careers, what they've done in their own skill sets. There's a lot of founders that are building tech products who are developers, and so they know how to build the product, but they need help with marketing or, you know, vice versa.
Lisa (00:24:52) So, what you need and what you get really depends on who you are and how you're coming at the business. I will say in terms of the cannabis industry and the one I worked for, that was 2015. So, it was year one and a half of adult use in Colorado. So, it was very, the industry was brand new. So, everyone who came into the accelerator was coming from outside of the industry and building most of them, their first business in a brand-new space. So, there was a lot of industry education around, you know, how does this work out here? What is what are the regulations? What does the industry was the history, where is it going, all of that. So, and I will say cannabis, there is so much more of the political and advocacy conversation because you're operating a business in a legally grey, politically grey area. and that just is a whole another set of challenges than if you were doing anything, anywhere else. So that accelerator focused a lot on just helping the entrepreneurs understand the industry as it was at the time.
Guillermo (00:25:54) Yeah. And we kind of coming back to, to storytelling again and, and I remember, it's a surprise in how important it is. Like we just talked again about how when raising money, it's a it's a big part of that. not just having, you know, of course, combined with the right metrics and a sound strategy, but the communication is the piece that can't be missing, to be successful. Right. And I still remember my first experience with raising capital. I worked in corporate before I was working, in my current role. And so, I now work with clients, but in a corporate role. I was working for a larger business, and we were raising capital in the high yield bond market. And I was the person in finance that was building the pitch deck. I was working with our bank and there, and we were also writing a big offering memorandum document that would go out to the potential investors. And I just remember talking to them and, I was pretty this was many years ago.
Guillermo (00:26:58) And they were like, okay, we're going to, you know, learn how to tell the story of your business. I mean, this was years ago. And I just remember thinking, like, what? I mean, I just thought we would talk about the numbers and, so even really early in my career, I, I knew the importance of it, but it's really taken me a lot of years for that to, like, really sink in, like, what's the importance of it and really what's at stake if you, if you don't, you know, quickly learn and improve at this and those are going to be successful or, really have to learn the skill. And it's a big it's a big part of a big part of business. so now those couple years in the industry before you started the, Cannabis Marketing Association, when was the point when it turned from, you know, some mixers at the place where you are working into more of a, a formal, would you call it trade association? association, into what it is today?
Lisa (00:27:59) It actually took almost three years.
Lisa (00:28:03) So, I spent so I was working full time for a lot of it. But we started, so we started doing the meetings in Boulder, Colorado at the time on meetup.com. Like, I just it was a meetup group. And then we had, folks from California, someone in San Francisco and someone from LA separately reach out and say, hey, we want to start doing these meetings here because we have the same issues here. and in cannabis, as many people know, the regulations are very hyper local. So even what you know, what the regs are in San Francisco is going to be different than what they are in LA County. So, the conversations from a marketing perspective at the time were were that happening that way. So, we launched chapters, and I say that in air quotes because it was a very informal way of, you know, we called them chapters, but it was just people meeting, in San Francisco in LA at the time. And that was some. So, the first meeting was February 2016.
Lisa (00:29:00) We launched in California September of 2016, and then we spent the next almost two years, having meetings just in those three places. And I would go to them and I would survey people and I would ask them questions. I was doing focus groups. I was just talking to people and getting a lot of feedback about. They were like, do you have a membership? And I was like, I don't know. And so, then we started, well, what would you want? You know what benefits would be helpful? Do you want more meetings? Do you want other type of content? What do you need? So,I really spent two years, I would say in the information gathering mode and testing and coming up with ideas and saying, okay, if we're going to do this, let's make sure we're built. That was the one thing I always learned from accelerators is like, build. What is solving a problem? not what you think solves the problem, not what you think is a good idea, but where there's actually like a need for the market.
Lisa (00:29:51) So for me, hearing from them was how I created that and how we created the member benefits associations are also, I didn't know anything about associations until I started doing this. But they're older. They're older organizations. A lot of the ones that exist are like some of them are 100 plus years old. And every industry, every like, there's an association for everything. I even joined there's an association for association executives, and I joined that to learn how to start an association. Like it's almost funny. but every, you know, like, there's the American Marketing Association, there's like, there's all these different associations, they're everywhere. So, I learned like, okay, this is what they are and what they do and their bodies that sort of set a direction for their industry or their profession or whatever vertical it is that they're in. So, I was learning about associations, and I was learning about what we could build. but actually, associations are typically non profits. They're typically 500 1C6 organizations, which means they're allowed to collect dues, to send lobbyists to do advocacy work.
Lisa (00:30:59) And most associations do have a component of advocacy. And I actually initially applied for that thinking. That's what we would do, because that's what we were supposed to do. And we have this name, but we were turned down by the government in 2018. They actually right after I or right before I applied, they had put out some guidance that said they were no longer accepting 501 C sixes on behalf of the cannabis industry, which was their way of saying, we don't want you to like, keep organizing anymore. and I spent like almost nine months to a year trying to fight that, which was, in hindsight, like kind of stupid because you're just not going to win against like, you're just not going to win against them when they make those decisions. So, I actually got a nonprofit status in the state of Colorado, but it wasn't recognized federally, so I could not get a nonprofit bank account. So even though I had banks that were open to me being in the cannabis industry, they were like, you can't get a nonprofit bank account unless you have nonprofit paperwork from the federal government, even though I had it from the state.
Lisa (00:32:01) So, I spent we basically should have launched earlier, but I got stuck in this weird kind of, well, how do we how do we just get up and formed and our paperwork and our bylaws and all that and couldn't. So we ended up pivot pivoting and we're an LLC, but it ended up working out because I'm not a I'm a marketer like I that's what I know I don't know lobbying and advocacy I don't know like that's just not my I would not be the right person to lead that type of organization. And there really wasn't a need just for that in marketing. So, we launched the membership model under the new structure that's really focused on education, events and best practices, which allows us to do what we do best in the way that we can. But we do partner with a lot of the nonprofit orgs that do advocacy and lobbying and support them in the ways that they need and that we can, because that's what they're good at and that's their life. And so, it took three years.
Lisa (00:32:55) It should have taken maybe one and a half or two, but I tried, I tried.
Guillermo (00:33:01) But I would say the things that you do from an advocacy standpoint are really effective. I just attended the, we'll get more into the, the virtual, event that that you put on every year. But through the slack channel, we're members of the Cannabis Marketing Association. And in our slack channel you posted about. Here's a link to commenting. The comment period is open for the reschedule. Here's how to do it. And those resources I can tell you from a member standpoint, are really useful because I didn't have to think about it. And I just clicked on that, and I did it, and it took me like five minutes. And I was just on a yeah, I was just on another we just hosted another webinar on the, on 280, the reschedule, the, the amended returns. And that was one of the things that we talked about is like, it's so important to go ahead and put your comments in there.
Guillermo (00:33:56) There's other, implications outside of this that continues to just show the federal government the support that is out there for cannabis legalization. And so, there's this ripple effect that happens from some of the things that that you do that you may not even realize because I said, okay, after our webinar, now I'm going to be like the Campus Marketing Association. I'm going to make it easy for people to go in there and communicate with, with their policymakers and constituents about, you know, how they feel about these issues. And so, it's it may not be official lobbying, but it's a really important part of it and part of it that the Cannabis Market Association does. yeah. And I think, you kind of went where, where I was, where I was going with this is that, you mentioned I've learned this the hard way is don't try to create a service or product that you think is great, but you got to solve problems that are already out there, right? And from a marketing standpoint, the members that were coming to you, what were those big problems that they were having, when they came to the initial meetings or as the, as the Market Association started to, to grow?
Lisa (00:35:10) Well, I will say.
Lisa (00:35:13) I will answer that, but I will say that part, part of what my goal was with CMA. And this also evolved over time as I better got to understand this space was that, marketers and communications professionals and what I learned at from the nonprofit that I told you about have immense power, and that they are the ones communicating directly with the public. They like marketing messaging from an organizational industry. Government like higher level standpoint really can influence public opinion. And obviously, one of the number one things cannabis marketers were up against certainly ten years ago was the stigma, which is that, hey, for 80 years we've had prohibition, which means we've had the propaganda that's come with prohibition. We've had all these things we were taught in health class about, you know, cannabis being a gateway drug. And these things we know are not true. But when you're told that you have to kind of go through that unlearning process, and that is a communications issue and that is a communications issue at an at least an industry level, even though I think it goes way more than that.
Lisa (00:36:21) But in terms of marketers, there is a big power in having the communications community organized in some way and communicating with each other in some way, because they are putting out the content that the public sees. So, a lot of like our mission at CMA and what we're trying to do is really around positively. It's our mission is to bring a positive perception to an authentic understanding of cannabis and its consumers around the world. So, we want the storytellers to be able to better tell the story about this plant, what it is, who's consuming it, why they're consuming it. But that means giving the communications folks and the marketers the tools they need to do that. So, we have that mission, but what we were hearing at the meetings was really more of like a tactical, practical need. Like, what are the regulations in Boulder for retail and being within, you know, two miles of the mountains, like, how do we how do we do marketing and advertising in this environment? How do we, what do we do when our Instagram account gets shut down? You know, how do we run ads on this platform? Can we even apply for doing, you know, X or Y? So a lot of it was just what they needed at the time was to understand what they could and couldn't do, and then needed tools to execute on that strategy, because back then, their social media companies were not working with cannabis businesses, publishers were not taking cannabis, working with or taking cannabis ads or even stories.
Lisa (00:37:46) And a lot of the marketing that happened in the early days was actually through PR, because that is protected by the First Amendment. You can, in theory, say whatever you want to a journalist that cannot be regulated. So, a lot of the year one, year two, and there was a ton of media interest in cannabis was what is the story coming out of Colorado? What does that, you know, did did the sky fall two years into legalization. Right. Like is everyone? Are these like apocalyptic scenarios that the opposition had coming true? And that was not the case. In fact, there are a lot of positive outcomes. So, a lot of the early momentum in terms of the story happened through public relations. But then as legalization went on in the it became more normalized in other states, started to legalize more publishers started working with cannabis companies and taking ads. Other and so more avenues and opportunities opened up. So, a lot of what we do at CMA is just helping our members understand what's available to them, how to use it, how to, like, hack it, for lack of a better word.
Lisa (00:38:44) But there's a lot of guerrilla marketing and kind of thoughtful things you have to do when you are in this space. and just honestly connecting folks with each other. There's a lot of networking and connecting and saying, you know, again, like what I did at the at the first meeting and what I needed, which was, hey, if you've done this before and you're in this space, can you help tell me how you did it or what you learn from it? Because I don't need to make that mistake again. and the industry also as a whole has a vested interest in being careful about this, because there's a lot of folks who don't want to see this be successful who are paying really close attention. so that's what we really tried to do. And our, benefits is really largely around different forms of continuing education. And then we put out that content through in-person events, webinars, white papers, blog posts, like we try to do every medium form possible because everyone learns a little bit differently and consumes content differently and get out the information that we know.
Guillermo (00:39:43) Yeah, that opposition that that you mentioned even though, you know, you may have a 90% support of a, say, a ballot initiative in a, in a particular market, you've seen some of them fail. And it's because that really small group is really militant about, you know, deploying resources, against, say like a ballot initiative in a state. And so, it's, it's true. And it a lot of them have failed in certain in certain markets because the opposition is so strong, even though the majority of, Americans support for sure, medical use, but recreational use as well. And it's not a divisive issue any longer. but to your point, yeah, there's just a small opposition, but it's really strong. So, on the tactical side, what are the resources? Because I know from experience like the when I started in this, I posted my very first ad, very naively in Facebook, and I couldn't get it approved. And then my account got locked. so, for marketers, as well as service providers or cannabis companies, are there resources to navigate? Of course, joining the CMA is I would recommend.
Guillermo (00:41:05) But in the meantime, is there any resources that that you share about how to navigate the regulatory side of marketing within cannabis?
Lisa (00:41:14) admittedly, we have a lot like for the members within the membership. So, we have various regulatory guides that link to all the websites that also help distill the regulations. Were actually publishing a whole new round now and partnership with Hold on law. So, they're helping us get all the regs that are relevant to each state from a marketing perspective and take that legal language and translate it for marketers. and then we will. So, we have like downloadable and written content, all of that that has the appropriate links, that tells you where to find the most up to date information and then more static content that we will just regularly update ourselves for the members. As things can change really quickly and really rapidly depending on where you are. That has slowed down a bit. I will say the first few years in Colorado again, 20 1420, like 1617. It felt like the regs changed every quarter.
Lisa (00:42:05) They were just like, we started with this, and we thought that was a good idea. And then in practice we need to adjust there and change that. And then it started to, okay, this is this is how we're doing this. And then other states got to learn and take those lessons. And they started kind of from a little bit of a further starting point. So, some of that back and forth has slowed down relatively speaking. But it's not I mean, again, it's a startup industry led by people who no one's ever done this before. Legalize cannabis in this way. So, everyone's kind of learning from each other, so we create content around that. But we will also regularly do webinars or we just did an ask. We're in the middle of a eight part ask, ask a marketer anything series, but it's really an AMA. And last week we did one with, lawyers and it was just come and get your questions answered because a lot of people will have specific or nuanced questions, but they need a compliance expert, or they need legal help.
Lisa (00:43:03) When a marketer's understanding is not, you can make a good guess. But a lot of these things which seem unserious or not, or really do need a double check to make sure you're understanding because you're not trained on the law. You don't really know exactly what this means or what it means in application. So, we try to have as many forums for in person, present time, up to date conversations, as well as creating content to just help people as they need on the go. And we have checklists and things like that to like, here's, you know, almost an SOP for how to approach these things because it's not easy and and because of two aid, which we've talked about in the past, marketing is grossly underfunded, like wildly underfunded in cannabis right now. So, marketing teams are understaffed. They're often junior folks running like very large campaigns, or they're doing things that might be, they don't have a full depth of experience on. And so, they just need more practical resources to make sure they're doing it with enough checks and balances.
Lisa (00:44:06) before they put out content that could get their license in, in trouble or be problematic.
Guillermo (00:44:11) Yeah, that's a great segue into. You mentioned the reschedule. Marketing budgets have been historically or, very tight. overall overhead has been very tight due to lack of profitability and the deductibility of those costs. And as we go into future years, I mean, whether cannabis companies will start to generate more cash from the better tax situation and just better, better pricing and markets, hopefully, you're going to have, you know, owners that are looking to invest in marketing, resources and virtual CFO services when working with the market or choosing someone to help you in your business. Do you have some recommendations on like really what to look out for? Like for myself, I'm like, if you're choosing a virtual CFO, please make sure you're working with someone who is in that niche. And that's by definition, a virtual CFO. We're not generalists. We tend to be in a particular industry or to and I think that's a really important piece of it.
Guillermo (00:45:18) But do you have some tips for those who are just kind of maybe starting to think through their budgets next year and what to look for? in terms of investing in marketing, professional services?
Lisa (00:45:31) Yeah, a few different things, I think. first of all, someone needs to be responsible for strategy, and they need to be a really good strategist because everything you're going to spend and invest on should relate to a good strategy. And in my opinion, good marketing strategy should always be tied to business goals. It's not like marketing is not created equal. You might be trying to bring in folks to the top of the funnel who are going to be your customers, and it's a kind of traditional bringing in leads. So, we get customers so we can make sales. But maybe if you're in the first year or two, you're really focused on brand awareness and making sure people know about you or if you're going to be fundraising because you're in a venture backed startup, you really need to focus on maybe good press or making sure there's a lot of media hype around you.
Lisa (00:46:19) So and that's different for every business. So there needs to be a good strategist somewhere, someone who understands strategy and who can articulate marketing strategy tied to business goals. I'm personally a very data driven marketer like you. I think the numbers tell a story and you can. Oh, okay, my followers increase. But why are they translating into qualified leads? Who are the followers? Like what? What are the numbers? Good marketing to me is like the full funnel, right? Like top of funnel, middle of funnel, bottom of funnel. And you can put numbers to all of that. How CMA in some ways is really an e-commerce company. Or you can buy a membership online. You don't even necessarily have to get on the phone with us to buy the membership or engage. So, our marketing is is a lot of it is an e-commerce strategy driving people to the website, having them download or engage with free content and then moving them down the funnel. So good strategist, but then also anyone who you would hire to execute on things, I just and this is my general philosophy with hiring anyone is ask a lot of questions and know what you need to know.
Lisa (00:47:24) You don't need to know what they do, but you need to know how to evaluate whether they are of quality or whether they are, you know, maybe reaching a little bit with their pitch or their skills and their expertise. I've made a lot of hiring mistakes in that way where I'm like, if I just said ask better questions, I would have I would have gotten this information so much earlier and saved myself so much time, or found, you know, someone who was a better fit, and never being afraid to ask for case studies and numbers. Like, what was your conversion rate to tell me about a campaign you launched that had good conversion rates? What were they and what did you do and references? I think doing your homework is really important and not just taking people at their word, whether it's marketing or otherwise. If you certainly if you're spending a lot of money. But also, again, marketing is a public facing role. They are putting out content. and one piece of poorly worded content, one piece of UN compliant content like can take your company.
Lisa (00:48:20) So, you really want to be careful about it and ask for reference and ask people you know, who they work with, who they like, and who does a good job, but make sure people are vetted. and that's generally a good bet.
Guillermo (00:48:32) What I hear you saying is that this marketing relationship is, because you mentioned strategy it's a partnership, right? It's a relationship. And so, there's, there's certainly the types of services that are a commodity. Right. bookkeeping, you know, entering the transactions when it comes to marketing and really deploying that strategy at the very top from a marketing standpoint, it really takes someone who really understands your business. First, you mentioned being able to articulate that strategy and the vision for the business to your marketing, people that you're working with. But it's also the marketing professional being able to listen in on that and really explain back, like, I understand you, I understand where you're trying to go. And that is really what I hear you saying, that it's really about the relationship.
Guillermo (00:49:27) And when picking a marketing professional, just really one, you gotta first know where you want to go because we can't take you if somewhere we don't know where you want to go. But it's not a it's not a commodity. It's not like a do this for me. It's like we're going to really work together based on where you want to go and what your strategy is and starting there. Right.
Lisa (00:49:47) Yeah.
Lisa (00:49:48) And good marketing knowledge and teams should compound positively where each thing, everything you do, you learn from, and you better inform your strategy and you pivot, and you build upon that. And like there's a snowball effect to it and that is what you're doing. You're not just trying to throw things at a wall and see what sticks. I mean, you can, but you want to be a little more thoughtful about that. But one quick story I'll have just to show what this like. An example of this is I consulted for a retailer in Colorado years ago. It's probably 2016. And they were well known, and they hired another well-known marketing agency at the time out of, I think it was Las Vegas.
Lisa (00:50:29) And they were specialized, a lot of big clients, but they were specialized in vice industries, so they did alcohol and entertainment in Las Vegas. And they said, oh, because we do Vice Industries, we, you know, we do cannabis so we can understand cannabis. But they didn't really have cannabis experience. And they put out a press release on 420 saying that this retailer was giving away free joints. And like the number one thing you can't do is give away free cannabis to the to the public. It can be a penny, but it cannot be free. And they put this on the on the wire. So, the retailer like immediately, you know the med found out called them, shut them down on for 20. They had audits and you know like the authorities come through and they literally could have lost their license because this vice experienced marketing agency didn't bother to understand this industry or read the regulations or like kind of no, one of the number one things you cannot do, and it nearly cost them their business.
Lisa (00:51:25) So, again, that's another level at which like maybe it was good intentions on everyone's side, but the lack of diligence that was done, probably for both parties, allowed a situation to get real. And I know they lost a ton of my name is 420. We can't be shut down on for 20.
Guillermo (00:51:41) So that's what I was going to. I was my mind was going to yeah. You didn't lose your license, but you lost the most important month of sales. Yeah. In your year.
Lisa (00:51:50) Yeah.
Lisa (00:51:51) And you paid someone to do that to you. So, it's like, you know, the stakes are high in a sense. And just being thorough is important.
Guillermo (00:51:59) So, really the technical side and the first part that you mentioned is hugely important. How can people learn more about CMA? Join. Get involved. What's the best way to connect with, with the CMA?
Lisa (00:52:17) Yeah. so, our website is the Cannabis Marketing Association. Com, we have a content hub that's got some free blog posts.
Lisa (00:52:25) We have free resources there. we have an intro to we have like an intro to cannabis marketing starter kit. We have a full one for the members, but we even intro one for the public that they can use. We're on social media at Cana marketing and we have a podcast called Party Like a Marketer, which is on wherever you listen to podcast. But we I interview our members and we have conversations like this and talk best practices. So that's another way to kind of get the free version of CMA and learn who we are and get information. But yeah, if you want to join, we're you can email us membership at Marketing Cannabis org or just like Learn more, we're happy to get on a call and talk with anybody. But we have a lot of resources on the website and a lot, a whole lot more for the members too.
Lisa (00:53:08) Yeah.
Guillermo (00:53:09) So it's easy to it's easy to join and get involved. I can tell you we, we found out about CMA and just kind of, jumped in and hit the ground running.
Guillermo (00:53:19) So, it doesn't take much to get involved and to become a member. And so, thanks for sharing that. I think our listeners are really going to benefit from what you talked about today, not only the content, but where they can go out to get resources. I can tell you whether it's CMA or other parts of my career. I joined the CPA society when I was really young, and that was a really a big part of my success. and I'm sure CMA has been for a lot of people. And so just joining your, your trade association get involved is just, just hugely important. And I really appreciate just hearing your story and how just how things have just developed for you, almost organically and how much you've learned a lot, a lot along the way. So, I know our listeners are going to love that as well as, maybe plant a seed into, starting that journey of becoming a great storyteller, I think was going to be the theme for our episode.
Guillermo (00:54:15) And so, everybody's got to start somewhere and maybe just listening on how impactful it has been for your career and your business journey. I think, I think a lot of people are really going to going to learn from that. and just lastly, just connecting with you personally, we talked about CMA, but what's the best way to people can find you if they want to connect with you?
Lisa (00:54:38) Yes, I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram, but probably more active on LinkedIn. And if feel free to connect on LinkedIn, but just leave a note and let me know you. I get a lot of random requests that you were a listener on the show, and I'd be happy to connect there as well. Or yeah, email. Email works too.
Guillermo (00:54:54) All right. We'll include all that in the show notes. And at least it's been it's been a huge pleasure speaking with you today. I keep saying it, but I think, I think everyone's going to love the episode today. Thanks for joining us. And we're here to share resources.
Guillermo (00:55:08) We're here to help each other. You're a great example of that. starting a trade association from scratch. And everything that you've accomplished so far. So, we thank you for that as well as the advocacy work, even though you don't consider yourself actively doing that, I can I know that, from personal experience. You truly are so. Thank you for that again and we'll see everybody next time on the Cannabis Success Show.
Lisa (00:55:31) Thanks, Guillermo.
Lisa (00:55:33) Thank you.
Intro (00:55:34) Enjoy this podcast. Visit our website Anders cpa.com/virtual CFO cannabis. To get more tips and strategy for achieving business success in the cannabis industry.