Guillermo and Brett interview, Albert Gutierrez, President of MedPharm, who shares his journey from tech to cannabis. The conversation focuses on research, product quality, and consumer education—highlighting MedPharm’ innovative work. Albert emphasizes the importance of research, regulatory challenges, and consumer education, stressing the need for high-quality, standardized products. The episode concludes with a call for ongoing education and community engagement.
“We’re trying to create an alternative to opiates to help give relief to patients when they’re in pain.” – Albert Gutierrez
The finer details of this episode:
Episode resources:
Timestamps:
Introduction to the Cannabis Success Show (00:00:00)
Overview of the podcast's mission to help cannabis company owners scale their businesses.
Welcome Back and Guest Introduction (00:00:25)
Guillermo Rodriguez introduces Albert Gutierrez and highlights the focus on cannabis research.
Discussion on Cannabis Research (00:01:22)
Brett Adams praises the innovative research work at MedPharm, emphasizing its medicinal potential.
Research License and Alzheimer's Focus (00:02:16)
Guillermo mentions MedPharm' research license and their exciting work on Alzheimer's research.
Guest Background and Journey (00:04:10)
Albert Gutierrez shares his journey from tech to cannabis, founding MedPharm.
Founding MedPharm and Research Goals (00:05:21)
Albert discusses the vision behind MedPharm, focusing on research and understanding cannabinoids.
Challenges in the Cannabis Industry (00:07:21)
Albert reflects on the difficulties faced while starting a cannabis company.
Research Framework Development (00:09:26)
Albert describes drafting a bill in Colorado to create a research framework for cannabis.
Achievements in Research Licensing (00:10:22)
MedPharm secures the first research license in Colorado, enhancing their research capabilities.
Focus on Neuropharmacology (00:10:22)
Albert elaborates on their research into cannabis's effects on Alzheimer's and other brain conditions.
Consumer Education and Research Impact (00:12:36)
Albert discusses the positive consumer feedback and the impact of research on education.
Research on Cannabinoids and Caregivers (00:13:41)
Albert shares insights on the benefits of cannabis for Alzheimer's patients and their caregivers.
Importance of Delivery Methods (00:17:25)
Albert explains the significance of different cannabis consumption methods for medicinal purposes.
Timestamps and Topics from the Cannabis Success Show
Creating Alternatives to Opiates (00:20:22)
Discussion on developing cannabis products as alternatives to opiates for pain relief.
Legitimacy of the Cannabis Industry (00:21:12)
Reflections on the industry's growth and the need for respect and legitimacy.
Challenges at the Flower Expo (00:22:26)
Insights on the venue choice for the expo and discussions on industry legitimacy.
Cannabis as a Tax Piggy Bank (00:22:48)
The cannabis industry’s heavy tax burden and its contributions to state and federal revenue.
Fragmentation in the Cannabis Industry (00:24:10)
Concerns over the fragmentation of the industry and the importance of collaboration among businesses.
Research and Development in Cannabis (00:25:00)
Discussion on the importance of research and the challenges faced in the cannabis space.
Cost of DEA Research Compliance (00:26:08)
Details on the expenses associated with obtaining DEA approval for research facilities.
Investment in Team and Culture (00:27:59)
Emphasis on creating a positive work culture and the potential for team recognition.
Impact of Rescheduling on Research (00:30:10)
Exploration of how rescheduling cannabis could affect research and legitimacy.
Political Implications of Rescheduling (00:33:16)
Discussion on the political motivations behind cannabis rescheduling and its real-world effects.
Navigating Non-Regulated Markets (00:37:33)
Advice for consumers in markets without regulations on how to safely access cannabis products.
Understanding Cannabinoid Content (00:40:24)
Albert discusses the importance of cannabinoid content for consumers seeking specific effects like sleep or pain relief.
Risks in Non-Regulated Markets (00:41:44)
Guillermo highlights the risks of purchasing cannabis in non-regulated markets and the lack of consumer education.
Evolving Consumer Education (00:42:11)
Albert emphasizes the growing trend of companies providing better consumer education and experiences in cannabis retail.
Challenges in the Michigan Market (00:43:59)
Albert shares insights on the rapid decline of cannabis companies in Michigan due to corruption and oversupply.
Impact of Licensing on Competition (00:45:19)
Brett discusses the oversaturation of licenses in Michigan, leading to fierce price competition among cannabis businesses.
Consumer Education Needs (00:46:05)
Brett expresses the need for better consumer education to ensure safe and responsible cannabis consumption.
Future of Specialized Dosage Forms (00:49:27)
Albert predicts a shift towards specialized dosage forms in cannabis, targeting specific health needs and conditions.
Research and Development in Cannabis (00:51:16)
Albert discusses the importance of accelerated research to create effective cannabis products for various diseases.
Connecting with Consumers (00:52:17)
Guillermo emphasizes the need for sharing personal stories to promote understanding and acceptance of cannabis use.
Finding MedPharm and Their Brands (00:53:08)
Albert shares where to find MedPharm' products and discusses their various brands and social equity initiatives.
Intro 00:00:00 Welcome to the Cannabis Success Show. If you're a cannabis company owner or operator who's ready to scale your business, grow your profits and plant the seeds to take your business to new heights. This show is for you. We'll share expert insights, industry trends, and actionable strategies to help you blaze a trail of success in the cannabis industry.
Guillermo 00:00:25 Welcome back to another episode of the of the Cannabis Success Show. Today we had a great guest. Let me start over because I said hi. So. Welcome back to another episode of the Cannabis Access Show. We have a great guest for you today. Albert Gutierrez from Med Farms. We have an episode just talking about research. I mean, we haven't had that on the show yet. We dive deep into the different aspects of cannabis research. And, you know, for me, as a as a consumer, I fall into that, that more educated consumer that's doing research. And so, this was just fascinating for me. I've learned a lot. I think it was a it's a special episode.
Guillermo 00:01:14 I think if you're looking to learn more about cannabis and how you can use it for, for medicinal purposes, right. What did you think about the show?
Brett 00:01:22 It was great. Alby was great to talk to. The work that they're doing really does seem like it's on the front line of, of the research and, and kind of elevating cannabis into, a true medicinal product, right. That, potentially has, you know, pharmaceutical applications and, and things along those natures with IV drips, things that they're experimenting with, the, the tinctures and the gum, the, the gels that they're using, to, to cater to different types of consumers who may have physical conditions that that prevent them from using in other methods. It was just fascinating. So, we talk a lot about consumer education and stuff like that in there too. So, I'd stick around and listen to the whole thing. It was a good episode.
Guillermo 00:02:16 Yeah. I'll be gets into the potential reschedule and what the effect of that is going to be on research.
Guillermo 00:02:23 Mad Farm Holdings is one of the first companies to have a research license. he goes into what all that means and some of the very exciting things they're doing with Alzheimer's research. yeah. Stick around to the end, because he really gives some good tips on what to look out for, what to research. If you're looking for a cannabis product, for a particular, ailment, for medical purposes. And he really details that out. That's what's coming up right now on the cannabis success show. Enjoy the show. Welcome back to another episode of the Cannabis Access Show, where, you know, we're diving deep into some of the most pressing topics in the industry and talking to innovative leaders. I'm your host, Guillermo Rodriguez. I'm joined by my co-host, Brett Adams. Brett, how are you today?
Brett 00:03:14 I'm doing good, Guillermo. It's good to be back. It's been a week or two since I've been on. So happy to jump back in.
Guillermo 00:03:21 Yeah, we're doing some travel. And, we were in the Michigan market, at the Flower Expo last week, so it's good to be back.
Guillermo 00:03:29 you know, we're fresh off of that, and now we're. No, you're you you're in the Michigan market, so we'd love to hear your take. And, what's going on there? today we got a really special guest who's really at the at the forefront of cannabis research product development. Joining me today is Albert Gutierrez. He's the president of, Med Farms Holdings. He's been in the industry quite a while, over ten years of experience in the cannabis industry and really a driving force behind, you know, Med Farms success. So, we're really get into that. Initially you were CEO and now you're your president. Of that business. Albert Albie, welcome to the show. It's great to have you here
Albert 00:04:10 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, guys. I'm excited to be here. And, looking forward to having some discussion together.
Guillermo 00:04:16 Absolutely. So first, we just like to start off with, can you give us the backstory of, you know, you've been in for a while.
Guillermo 00:04:24 I think you've been you were in the very first rec market, which is Colorado. From what I understand, you just kind of give us your trajectory over the years of, like, how you got into the cannabis industry and what's been going on for the last ten years or so of your career.
Albert 00:04:38 Yeah, yeah. you know, it's kind of crazy because I started off, after I got my bachelor's, I and was working on my master's. I started, I was in tech, and so I really I've always been kind of an entrepreneur. I've kind of been an entrepreneur at different businesses. I was working at a tech company, and then I got, introduced to a guy by the name of Andy Williams, who owned a company called Medicine Man. If you're familiar with Medicine Man from back in the day. So, Andy was the CEO of Medicine Man, and I'd been doing some side projects for him as a consultant. and finally he said, hey, come over to medicine with me full time, help me to strategize on some of the different business development things we're doing and some of the acquisitions and whatnot.
Albert 00:05:21 And I was like, hey, why not? It's, you know, cannabis was just getting going, at least on the rec side at the time and so, We started to think about different ways that we could look at different companies to acquire. And so through Medicine Man Technologies, which is a publicly traded company, I was helping with some of those different acquisitions, and we started to come up with a concept at the time of what could be what's called now, Med Pharm, but a company that really focused on research and understanding the what, why and how behind cannabinoids, terpenes and other excipients that come together to help people. And, you know, we wanted to see what that looks like, from an operational standpoint, one, to fund the research and two, to be able to bring this to life and show the legitimacy of and the medicinal value within the plant and so, we started to build it out, we brought out the plans for it. And finally, two of the partners who got involved, had come to Andy and said, hey, we need Albie to really just take us on as the CEO and run the company because he's he knows what he's doing.
Albert 00:06:26 he's shown improved himself. and so, you know, I stepped in and, since the beginning, but I really took over as the CEO in 2016. We started the company in 2015, but our goal was really to do that research. Right and so in the early days and even still, the research has lacked, and we were looking for ways to show how cannabis can help people. We always hear about it anecdotally. We always hear about it even in the news. But the problem is that, you know, the federal government says that there's no research to show that. And so, you know, we built out the company, we started getting operational. I went through all of the hoops and barriers and all the nightmares that I could give you over and over as far as what it takes to start a company like this. And I always tell people, if you're trying to get into this industry, it's not for the faint of heart. It's not easy. It's not like we're making money hand over fist all the time.
Albert 00:07:21 It's not. It's nothing like that. You have to be ready to get your butt kicked day in and day out. And so, as we built out, you know, the company, we, like I said, went through all the different licensing processes. got operational in 2017. started our first sales in early 2018. built it out into different products, verticals and, different brands that we've created over the years from batch, which is our number one brand. We are the number one cartridge in Colorado. To our Olivia. Our brand. to our new brand, which is now coming out. and then the become brands and the awareness brand. I mean, we have a number of brands that we've created for different consumers, different times, different needs. What we've really done well is create standardization in how we create products. And so, what we've done to do that is create GMP and gap, standards within and also get certifications to support that. Right. So, we know that on the federal scale GMP is required.
Albert 00:08:26 And so we've actually become certified not just saying oh we're GMC, GMP compliant like a lot of places are. We're actually certified in good manufacturing practices to show that we standardize everything we do. We have processes that go around it and that you're going to get a consistent, reliable dosage form every time that hits you the same way. Right? So, if you have a customer who comes in and uses your tincture as an example for epilepsy. You're getting that same effect every time from our product. You're not just getting some willy nilly did it this way one time, did it this way, that another time that you might get sometimes from other manufacturers. And that's not a knock on them. That's just how they operate. But we don't and so, you know, as the years went on, we really wanted to create that framework for research to say, hey, we're helping people. How do we articulate that? And so, in 2018, we drafted a bill. I helped to write the bill in Colorado to create a research framework out here that allowed us to do research, because we weren't allowed to do research at the federal level at the time.
Albert 00:09:26 and so we wanted to create a framework within Colorado where we could use our products, do our research through the Marijuana Enforcement Division and the Colorado Department of Health, and environment groups to keep them involved and make sure that we can do the research without somebody coming in and just squashing everything we're doing. So, I helped you write the bill in 2018. We got it passed in 2019. They messed it up when they passed it because there's so many revisions that go on. Everybody has their hands on it. We had to make some updates in 2020. We finally got the first research license that was allowed in Colorado. We still have that. We hold number one, the number 00001 license here in Colorado, which I'm really excited about. and then from there, we also started to look into DEA, registration to be able to have a DEA schedule, one license. And so, in our facility here in Colorado, we have everything from PhD chemists, analytical chemists, compound pharmacists, and a slew of others, expertise to make sure that we can bring some of these products to life, but also research to life.
Albert 00:10:22 So, we got that. We got that license in 2020. We got the DEA schedule one license 2020, 2021. and we've been working on doing federal research now for a few years. our focus is more on neuropharmacology. I'm talking a lot, so you can always shut me up. but neuropharmacology, it matters to the brain because cannabis is something that can cross the blood brain barrier. We want to leverage the cannabinoids and their anti-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory properties and other properties to help see if we can retard, decrease or improve, completely different disease states like Alzheimer's, dementia, Parkinson's and others and so, we're doing that and we've, you know, along the way, we've created some great products within our lines, from vapes to tinctures to pills to creams, all over. We've expanded it to other states where Colorado, Michigan, Iowa will soon be coming to Missouri. We're looking at a couple other target acquisition states that we're working on. but we're just growing very carefully. we are a strong group, within the metaphor, and then as a greater group, the blood and Mary's, ecosystem that we've created, and we're creating some great products that are going to go and support patients, for their medical needs or others for the recreational purposes.
Guillermo 00:11:38 Yeah, that that is thank you for that background. that is pretty innovative to be so early on, particularly in a in a legacy market state like Colorado. And to already be focusing, on research because the effects of pricing wouldn't have come many years later. But as you like, look back. It's been quite a few years. Have you, you know, because the other challenges, not just the research, but it's getting the information out to folks as well. Right. And the consumers are getting more educated, but still slow. How have you seen the fruits of your labor in terms of what the research has done in terms of educating the consumer and really moved consumers, either into the market or shifted consumers away from, maybe just the high THC kind of, type of market. Yeah.
Brett 00:12:36 The trend.
Albert 00:12:38 Yeah, yeah. No, you know, the great part about it is I get messages every week from consumers who have messaged us and said, this product has helped me.
Albert 00:12:47 I've had patients who have had cancer and who are dealing with some hormone issues, who've used our tincture to manage that. I've had patients message us with our vapes, because they have problems sleeping. I've had patients, you know, all the different conditions that exist. I've had I've had patients, and we've done some baseline research with Alzheimer's patients who have been able to leverage, one of our tinctures to help with their overall cognition as well as their overall demeanor. Right. And those are the things we measures, like how as a caretaker, are you also getting some relief because it's a lot to deal with in Alzheimer's patients if you never had. And then one of the reasons that we focused on Alzheimer's, and we still are, is because I had a great grandmother who raised me when I was little. I was raised by all women and my great grandmother, who I used to go to her house. She, she got Alzheimer's eventually. So, the woman who helped raise me and take care of me, and she got Alzheimer's, and I had to take care of her.
Albert 00:13:41 And so it's a very hard thing to watch. It's a hard thing to manage because those people, who get who contract Alzheimer's and dementia can become very irate. They don't know what's going on. They're on the move because they're trying to run away sometimes. My grandma used to do that. We always knew her as the runner. but those are those are the things that we have to deal with, unfortunately. And so, one of the things we measure is how have the caretakers, lives been helped? And that's, that's always helpful. but also, how have the overall cognitive abilities of that patient been improved? And so we've seen some really good, promising baseline data, which is really important. these research studies take a lot of money. They take a lot of time. there's a lot of governing bodies you have to go through, review boards, to make sure it's safe. We have to go through different steps from the Colorado Department of Health and as well as the Marijuana Enforcement Division to get approved.
Albert 00:14:35 And so it's a lot of pieces to get one thing done. Right. And I hope one day that's streamlined a little bit, but we're still working on that. But in the meantime, back to your question regarding the fruits of the labor. We have seen positive results. We received some money to do a study on, the is from the state of Colorado, but to see if the, what you're seeing on the shelf, at a dispensary is matching up with what's actually there. So, making sure that it's a 1 to 1, because we have to test everything. As far as what goes out to the public, we have to test it through our state tracking system as well. Well, we did that, and we found some really good results. We published those, we got those into a publication, and we get more researchers wanting to reach out because of that. So that's important for us to have those abilities to research. On the other hand, when we're looking at some of the research we're doing now, what we're looking at is microglia in the brain and looking at a way to combat inflammation within the brain.
Albert 00:15:27 So, we're using minor cannabinoids and others to help to combat some of those, different disease states that are in the brain. So, we'll enflame it and we'll go and combat it with certain cannabinoids. And we have different patents on different delivery methods within those cannabinoids. So, if you think of one that goes within the mouth. kind of like an oral gel. We have a patent on that with cannabinoids and so, we're looking at different ways that we can introduce it to patients who maybe can't swallow, for instance, and allowing them to still get that relief and delivery to their, their brain, their mouth, whatever it may be. and so, yeah, we've seen some great, some great, responses from that. We're still doing a lot of that baseline research. We're working on a couple other studies I can't say a lot about right now, but they're really exciting for the next level and phase of growth with what we're doing with the new, new drug development and discovery within the FDA.
Guillermo 00:16:17 Right. That's just fascinating.
Brett 00:16:19 It is.
Guillermo 00:16:21 Yeah. I do remember those first days of my grandmother when she started developing dementia. And what you mentioned is that the most dangerous part of it is when someone can, you know, an elderly person can leave their house, not know where they're going to be disoriented, but just the effect on the caretakers as well. And just how, you know, through this research of people who otherwise wouldn't look to cannabis as a solution are now starting to do that, and not just in effect on the patient, but on the on the on the caretakers, which are usually family. Right. And it's just a ripple effect that can really help a family, as well. You know, one of the things you mentioned there was the, essentially talking about the various different form factors, right. Can you talk a little bit more on why that's important? Like for someone who's looking into cannabis, why it's different to consume it from a gummy or flower versus a tincture. and what the, what the research has uncovered about, you know, how to consume it for medicinal purposes.
Albert 00:17:25 Sure. you know, it's first of all, first and foremost is probably a preference, right? You have people who want for, like, the perfect example. I'm not necessarily an edibles person because when it hits your body and you're starting to digest, it actually turns into a different, chemical, let's say. Right. And so, for me it hits me very hard when I take an edible in. So, edibles for me are something I don't consume. Others love them. And that's a better form of consumption for them because they don't like to smoke. Maybe the inhalation bothers their lungs or their throat. Right and so, I'm, I like to. I like to smoke, whether it's a vape or flower. I'm up for both. if I consume. and so, so it just depends on obviously preference, but there's not I think you get a better delivery overall from something like a tincture. and it's really simplified ingredients. Right? For instance, when we do make our tincture, we're not adding a bunch of junk and carrier oils and all that stuff that kind of like pollute the delivery of it.
Albert 00:18:29 We're using a very pure form of an oil that will help deliver it to your digestive system right away. And I think that's really important to understand because you're getting a lot of companies again, not to knock them, but just there are companies out there who put a lot of different things in their tincture. And let's and if you're going to be somebody who's trying to remove alcohol dependence off of yourself from being dependent on alcohol, you don't want something that's going to have a tincture where you're using alcohol as the base or some form of alcohol. And so those are things to think about. So, that's one thing. You do get a lot of benefits from inhalation. A lot of people are like, oh, it's smoking. Actually research has shown within cannabis that when you do smoke, the cannabinoids help to repair a lot of portions of your lungs. So, we've seen positive impacts there. but some people don't like to smoke, like I said. So maybe an oral version will be better. Some people can't swallow.
Albert 00:19:24 We've had patients who are cancer patients who have throat cancer. And so that's why we've developed the gel that you can dissolve into the buckle of your mouth. but it still gives delivery straight to your brain. Right. So, there's different ways to do that. And for us it's really about having options for different types of patients. We've developed a proprietary and patented method to be able to create like an IV drip. So, if a patient is in a hospital, maybe we can give them some relief without giving something like an opioid for once and so, we'll be doing research on those types of things in the future and seeing their effectiveness. Right. And so that those are the types of different, delivery methodologies as well, thought processes. We have to help to give patients an option, whether they want to use it one way or another. I remember in the early days when we started to develop the one for the IV drip, for instance, we had the Department of Public Health come in here and they brought their chief doctor and all this stuff and said, you guys are going to be making stuff for people that are just shooting up in their arms.
Albert 00:20:22 And we said, guys, that's not what we're doing at all. Just because we have a clean room and we can make an IV drip, doesn't mean I'm going to go put it out as a product where somebody can shoot it up. That's not what we're trying to do. We're trying to create an alternative to opiates to a problem within what we've seen in the community and help to create a new delivery method that can help give relief to patients. So, when they're in, when they're in pain. And that's what. And once they saw it, it's funny because that same medical doctor, that chief medical doctor came up to them and said, you guys blew this way out of proportion. This is crazy that you even came to me for this. These guys are doing great research and I look forward to working with them. So, it was really exciting to hear that because we are always fighting. I talked about this earlier, but we're always fighting for, like, respect. People think that we're just a lot of times we're just an industry that goes in, you know, we're doing open blast butane in our backyards and our garage and just making these products on the ground.
Albert 00:21:12 And you know, it's just this, this crazy thinking of what may have been at one point but isn't anymore. And we've matured. And so, it's exciting to get that respect when we can get it, and also not have to fight when we don't have to, because it's always a fight.
Brett 00:21:26 So, that was that was a big topic at the Flower Expo that we were just at. is the legitimacy of the business and things like that. The I don't want to knock the expo. The expo was fantastic. There was a lot of good people there, a lot of good businesses. and overall, I think the, the, the expo was a success, but the, the venue that they chose was a little odd. It was a kind of a abandoned lumber yard, as kind of what it the best way that I can explain it. And so, you know, the, the main building where they had the dispensary and things like that, like they were broken windows in the building and, and it just kind of seemed like it was they shoved us and maybe it wasn't the Expo, maybe it was the city, but they just kind of shoved us over and said, nope, you have to be over in this area.
Brett 00:22:13 You know, we don't want you out in the main, the main field. Right. And but you look around, there's billions of dollars in that are in businesses that are being generated every day, just in that venue alone. And it's like there's some legitimacy to what we're doing. The tax rates that they pay are absurdly high, but they're contributing back to the states and to the federal government in that form. you know, so that would that was a big topic of discussion, amongst a lot of the retailers and stuff that we saw there.
Albert 00:22:48 It is crazy because a lot of times we are looked at as, you know, the bastard child, for lack of a better term. Right. But at the same time, when money's needed, who's the piggy bank? It's us, you know, like, oh, more tax. We'll just add another tax to the cannabis industry. And we've had to fight that a lot over the years. We've had to like I remember in the early days, there were so many of the, legacy companies in the early, you know, pioneers in this industry that we all work together to, like, combat them, adding just another tax because they just want more money for one thing or another, but called it parks.
Albert 00:23:23 But we're like, okay with all the money for the other parks go because we haven't seen that, you know, come to come to light yet. and, and so, you know, we still do that and it's, it's a lot harder now because it feels like it's so fragmented, so much more. It's as it's grown, it's not as tight as it used to be. So, a lot of the guys that I came up with who were the, you know, I call them the pioneers and the groups that we originally worked with, the Lasagnas Farms. And, you know, those guys from way back when, the medicine man's, the medically correct and the Dixie's and all those companies who we were still around, but, you know, different ownerships and whatnot that have changed over time. I feel like we've kind of sectioned off a little bit more now. pulling us together is always important. We call it competition or we've called it competition over the years where we compete, but we always also work together because if not, we wouldn't be where we are.
Albert 00:24:10 This industry would have died a long time ago, especially with all the taxes we paid. I mean, give you an example, I just paid a few hundred thousand dollars in taxes just this past month just to cover our tax bill. So, we're paying them. You're right. It's always nice, but you're right. You know, when they get a chance to push us aside and throw us into a side room. Well, you know, that's that fits their agenda. Whoever is in charge of those facilities. But, you know, I think it's important to still continue to band together. And we got we got better ways to do that moving forward.
Brett 00:24:40 Yeah. So, my grandmother also suffered from Alzheimer's. So, I had to I had to watch that play out. And when you talked about him getting angry, there's a specific memory that I have of my grandmother and it was. I don't remember how old I was, probably, you know, six, seven, eight, something like that.
Brett 00:25:00 When she passed. But we were in her living room, and I think I had grabbed the remote control for the TV, and it just it set her off for some reason, to the point where she grabbed my arm and, like, grabbed it really hard, and I. And I look up at her and you, it's just blank, right? She doesn't know who I am. I can tell that. And she doesn't know what she's doing. You know, unfortunately, but yes, it was a that was a I applaud your research in that area. I think that's a big area of discussion that we can have. If somebody in the retail space or in the development space of, of the industry is wanting to elevate to the next level, and they're looking at, you know, what's next and innovation and things like that. I'm sure the DEA license was not cheap, but do you feel that other industry experts and brands and things like that should explore it?
Albert 00:26:08 The license itself isn't what's expensive.
Albert 00:26:11 It's having the facility that allows for the license to be attached to it. That's expensive. You know, the license is a few hundred bucks that the controls that you need to have in place in order for the DEA to approve your facility in order to conduct this kind of research. That's what becomes expensive. You're looking at a perfect example. You have to have a certain kind of safe. It's not a regular safe. And it's probably about $15,000 to $20,000 just for the safe. Okay, then you talk about the camera systems. You have to have involved the backup systems, the failover systems for that, the systems for fire that so they can approve you. There's a lot of different things that go into getting your facility approved by the DEA. Do I think it's worth it? Absolutely. I always look for more collaborators. We need more researchers. it's still hard. Even though we have the licenses and everything. It can be a challenge to get universities on board. We have a few good partners who I'm excited to work with.
Albert 00:27:09 And we're getting some really good traction nowadays. But it took a long time to get there because I remember going even over to the Anschutz Medical Campus down the street, for Colorado State or University of Colorado, and they wouldn't even talk to us at the time. You know, their director of compliance was like, we can't do anything. Our hands are tied. We want to do something, but we can't. Now it's like, okay, we can have conversations, but maybe necessarily they can't act. Or maybe some, you know, another division can. And so we've got some university partners who are like, hey, we're all in. You guys have what you need. You know, we understand the risks. Let's move together. and that's exciting too, right? but it is quite the investment because you talk about that portion of it and then you talk about the level of expertise you need. And, you know, from PhD chemists, I mentioned analytical chemists, compound pharmacists, you know, those wages aren't cheap.
Albert 00:27:59 And so it's an investment, but I think it's an investment for me. To me, in my mind, it's an investment, obviously, into bettering the world from where we started and being able to articulate some great research that we're going to do. But also it's an investment into my team because they're excited to bring this to light. And also, you know, in the next few years, I always think about, like, how can I make them feel excited about work? How can I because we don't. Money is one thing, right? Teams another, and we have great culture. We have a great, great team. But also like I want them to get recognition. And so, one day I always say that my dream is for one of them to get some form of Nobel Prize. I want to be us, to be known. I want us to get published in to a big scientific journal, like I want all these things to come to fruition, because I want people to be excited and passionate about what they do.
Albert 00:28:50 And I wholeheartedly mean that. And I say that because a lot of people will say, oh, you know, that's the company line. It's not, I'm that person. I'm excited for our team, what we've built here, the culture we've built, and my tenure for our employees shows it because they don't leave. My employees do not leave me. And I love that about it. Because in the cannabis industry, the average tenure for an employee is about six months at best. You know, it's.
Guillermo 00:29:15 Starting to be that way for every industry.
Albert 00:29:17 And I'm telling you, I have people they six, seven, eight years now that I've been here. I have people who've been here just two years, but they're like, I'm never leaving you know? Like, they just don't want. And I love that. Right? Because I've created something special for them to feel valued and excited. And they're here every day. They're not calling in. I'm just I just really get excited about that.
Albert 00:29:37 So anyway,
Guillermo 00:29:39 So, let's take on that topic of, of research and. Yeah, what do you see over the next year? I mean, we talk about the potential reschedule having a huge impact on research. Right. for someone like you that you've already been, in that space, how would it how would the reschedule affect you? personally? And what do you see in terms of research? Is that something you're excited about over the next year? How do you see that playing out?
Albert 00:30:10 I mean, I mean, yeah, it's exciting from the standpoint I think I think it starts to help remove some more of the stigma of what's been created over the, over the years with cannabis. you know. For years colored groups and communities have been targeted for having cannabis, right. And we've seen that in one way or another. So, my goal with a lot of the research too, is to legitimize that somebody's carrying cannabis because you know, they're using it for whatever issue anxiety or whatever isn't pulled over.
Albert 00:30:44 and the research shows, hey, this person does actually have this condition and they're using it because of that. So, they're not getting arrested for it and put back in jail. And that's not happening for me. Research. The rescheduling does some of that. for, for our company, it helps to create probably other partnerships with other groups who might want to now step in to more of the research in cannabis, which is exciting. It might help with investors who want to help to fund some of this research, because that's important for us to in order to get this done. So, from that standpoint, I think it's great from the standpoint of what we can do right now. The good news is we've created that framework, and I helped to create that framework in Colorado. So that's not going to hold us back from being able to conduct research. so, it doesn't change from that standpoint. What it does change and what it does help, if this carries over and I always hear, oh, it's going to happen, I always hear, it's definitely going to change, you know, the tax codes for us, that that would create more funding for us to be able to, you know, move these projects forward.
Albert 00:31:45 and the tax code is changing is huge for industry because our industry is getting beaten up left and right now. I mean, I our number of licenses has dropped by, I think 30 to 40% over the past two years. I mean, that's crazy, right? Those are licensed operators, whether it's dispensaries or others in Colorado. and the industry is down as a whole, about 25% to 30% just over the past 2 or 3 years. And so, I think that helps to move us forward in the sense that we can save some dollars, act like a real business, take the take the, write offs that we need to take as a business that we're not allowed to take right now. and so that's exciting. for us, it's you know, we've done a really good job over the years at adapting to the industry needs. and also looking at, you know, what things are impacting our bottom line. and so luckily with because of that and our ability to pivot and our, our innovative ways, we've been able to kind of stay ahead of a lot of that.
Albert 00:32:45 but when you look at the rescheduling, I think it's all right now for political gain, which kind of is. But to me, I'd rather see the scheduling happen. If we're going to do it, let's get serious about it and just do it all the way across the board. and that would make me more excited. But I still see some value, like I mentioned earlier and some of the rescheduling items for us as a research company, you know, we're going to still keep plugging away if we if we get it, great. That's the best case scenario. But I'm always, always a plan for the worst, hope for the best type of guy.
Brett 00:33:16 Yeah, I think I just read an article the other day. And they were they were going through the scheduling versus rescheduling. and rescheduling, at least from a logistics standpoint, doesn't do a whole lot. Right, because it's you still can't transport it across state lines, you know, all that stuff. The whereas with D scheduling you can.
Brett 00:33:41 Right. So, so yeah, I think you're right. I think the rescheduling, there's a little bit of political points, you know, that that's always the game, right? but I think they're trying to score some they're.
Albert 00:33:55 They leave it up in the air. Right. It's still up in the air. Oh, they got to do the review and all this blah blah blah. It's like by that time the elections happened and then we're back into this because we've heard this all this talk before last election. And it's like by that time it's the election is over, and then they can just kind of let it fade away, and then the next election will happen again. So, I never get excited about anything until it actually is done, because I've just been burned too many times getting excited about this kind of stuff.
Guillermo 00:34:20 So, we ask it on every podcast, I think.
Brett 00:34:23 Yeah, exactly.
Guillermo 00:34:24 Same thing. I.
Brett 00:34:26 Company specifically would benefit though, especially from the R&D tax credit side, right? I mean, those are those are very generous, but they're also very complicated.
Brett 00:34:38 And, you know, so you would need to have applied for it.
Albert 00:34:43 Before actually, or tried to and originally it was just through the state one. So, we are through the state. So, we couldn't really get it done. Now that we have the DEA one, I think we could still benefit. We could benefit from it. Sure. But because we're still involved on the other side in federally illegal activity, our tax team has been kind of hesitant to do that. So, I just don't rattle things too much yet. But I don't know, I'm riskier. I always tell them, let's just do it. But I would have been in cannabis if I wasn't risky anyway, right? So that's just.
Guillermo 00:35:14 Yeah, I think, you know, Trump finally came out with some with some comments on it. And then he mentioned another announcement that he's going to make about Florida. I don't know what it is. I haven't speculated. but luckily, like you said, it's political, but it's helpful on both sides, it seems like.
Guillermo 00:35:34 And so somebody's got to take advantage of it. And that's why I feel like to me, it's got to get done. It seems on track the, the, the, I heard the DA's gotten through 90% of the comments and 90%, 95% of them are in favor or positive comments. And they're it's a record volume of comments. Yeah. and so, it just seems to me that this is up for grabs for somebody either party to use this, you know, for their advantage or for support. And I wonder what Trump's talking about. what exactly he's going to say about Florida and what's with the with the boat coming up there, but, yeah, I'm going to differ from you and just really say I do think it's going to happen. I do think they need some points and it's going to happen before the election, but nobody knows.
Albert 00:36:23 I'm hopeful. But man, I just I think I've been burned on some of this stuff so much I just, I think color me, pessimistic until I see it happen.
Albert 00:36:32 You know, I just.
Guillermo 00:36:33 Yeah.
Albert 00:36:34 I have to think that way, too, right? I have to protect the business in that way of like, okay, it's not going to happen. Because if I do, if I overshoot it and then it doesn't happen, then we're in trouble because we're moving the wrong way. But if we kind of hold back and watch like many are doing, you know, we're kind of kind of see what goes on. But I'm hopeful too. I just I just am just like, stop, stop posturing. Guys like, make action already. If we're going to do it, let's quit talking about it. Let's be about it. That's and I'm more of that way.
Guillermo 00:37:01 So yeah. Yeah, I'm hopeful. You made a comment earlier. You said the word fragmented. you know and markets are fragmented to Right. It's a world we live in. and we have listeners that are in all kinds of different states. Right? one of the things that I wanted to ask you is, you know, from a, from a consumer patient standpoint, for those that may be in, in markets without access, like Brett mentioned, we were just in Michigan.
Guillermo 00:37:33 A lot of product from outside the Michigan market is coming in a lot of the markets are dealing with unregulated, product. What should consumers look out for? I mean, I think it's easy to say, in Colorado you can find your brand. They can listen to this podcast. Know what you're about, the research, how your products are tested. But for those who are looking into cannabis to for sleep or different, different, medical, reasons, if you're in a non-regulated or a market without a medical program or rec program What do you really need to know in terms of like, I'm going to try hemp derived product or something that's not regulated, anything that consumers could benefit in terms of learning how to access market.
Albert 00:38:26 Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it'sreally hard to say how well they're there or what their testing standards are. You know, I've had people who tried a gummy from the hemp market, tiny piece. And they were just in a in another orbit.
Albert 00:38:47 They're in Pluto, right? from a really tiny piece. and so, you know, that goes to tell me that homogeneity is off from what they were saying was a ten milligram piece. Right? It's probably a lot more and so, testing is always so important and so, I always say, you know, know what you're getting. It's really hard. But, I mean, hopefully there's some tests to say that this really is ten milligrams. If they're saying 10 or 25, where it may maybe, that's important to understand. if you're really going to dig deep and you're one of those consumers who really wants to know the sources, you know, you always want to find out, you know, what kind of pesticides are used in production, right? We're very we're very, we're sorry. We're heavily scrutinized for what type of pesticides we can even use. So, a lot of places, don't check that. especially if it's coming from, you know, like a hemp, outdoor facility.
Albert 00:39:39 You got to spray and who knows what kind of sprays they're using? What kind of metals testing have they done? Metal testing. because a lot of times you get heavy metals and some of those products, or even in the packaging that if you're thinking of a vape, for instance, metals can leach into, the, the oil that you might be vaping. So, that's another thing to think about and those are the things that we have to test for everyone. Residual solvents. Right. What other whatever the things are, are being put into that product to help produce it? And do they completely get out you know some all the alcohol. So, you're not vaping that in your lungs. those are the tests test that we have to go through. So those are things that I would look at to see if there's some background on it. I don't know. You know how you walk if you walk into a head shop and you ask if they have those codes, but that's but you're asking me.
Albert 00:40:24 That's what I would look at, right? but I'm also a lot more involved than most people are in what the processes are to make these products. You know, if I was a consumer also stepping in and you just want to, I would look at the cannabinoid content, you know, what are you looking to do? Maybe understand what cannabinoids you're trying to target for sleep. It's more like a CBN type of product. a reset on your body because you've been heavily consuming try a CBD product. You're trying to relax and get some relief from pain CBC and some THC products. So, you know there's a lot of things I think about and it's probably a little bit more complex than others would and want, but those are some of the things I think are really important. Those are actually vital, right? Because you don't know what other people are cutting their products with. So, you always want to look at the back of the product too. I'd say look and see if there's any propylene glycol in there that's being.
Albert 00:41:17 Products being cut with for like vaping. Not necessarily for food products but for like vaping and they're MCT oil that's being added to that vape is there any, other harmful diluent? And there's a whole list of them. You can even look online. Vitamin E acetate is another one. There was a big volley scare years ago, but those are the things I would look at. and see what was used in production, if possible and they're ingredients obviously, as usual. So. Yeah.
Guillermo 00:41:44 So I mean, I hear you're saying is that it's going to be a risk if you're in a, in a non-regulated market or purchasing from, from a smoke shop, because I agree with you that I don't think you're going to get any education in a smoke shop. And these questions are just like not going to be heard or it's going to go over their head and most smoke shops will. although there's been more that I've seen that are now targeting a little bit more educated consumer.
Guillermo 00:42:08 But for the most part Yeah.
Albert 00:42:11 And you get. You get some. I'm sorry to interrupt. Oh. Go ahead. But no, I was saying you get some of the companies who are hip to that, and they do want to provide a good experience. And there's a lot of them, I should say not some. But there are some a lot that want to provide a good experience and do take the time to, to create, messaging around that and do their own due diligence to make sure that their suppliers are, you know, the right ones. and so, you know, just you can get some of that information at the stores. You do get a lot of the store staff who are very big on making sure they're giving good experiences and also understanding the products as well. So, they're getting more education. So, I think it's evolving. I always think of it as like Colorado 20 1415. Right. We're just kind of getting going like what are the right things. Every it's that whole forming, storming, norming, performing thing.
Albert 00:43:01 Like we're trying to figure things out. We're bumping into each other. We're not sure what's right, what's wrong. Then regulations come and then we're still kind of doing the same thing and regulations come in, it gets better and better and so, I think that it's going to continue to evolve and get better as long as it's not outlawed, as we're seeing it could be, in the next year. I doubt that it happened, but if it does, that's a whole another ballgame. But if it doesn't, I think it'll continue to evolve to show the legitimacy of what that side of, you know, the hemp side of things is doing. and I think that that could have a big impact on the cannabis, sorry, the regulated cannabis industry. I know that in Colorado, our marijuana enforcement division has taken control over all cannabinoids, basically, that are being introduced to the market, whether it's on the hemp side or, the regulated side, which I think helps to create some good barriers and parameters for those people to operate within and around.
Guillermo 00:43:51 So yeah, you're in Michigan market too. So that's a huge distinction between how those two markets are being handled.
Guillermo 00:43:58 Correct?
Albert 00:43:59 Yeah, yeah, Michigan is another beast we're learning a lot about Michigan. there's a lot of I'm going to call it craziness, for lack of a better term going on out there. and as we saw corruption with, you know, one of the most recent busts that went on and so, I think what's happening right now is a lot of companies are dying off in Michigan, just like they have in Colorado, but at a much faster rate. Right? We're seeing prices fall much more rapidly in Michigan, and we haven't any other market, even faster than like Oklahoma, right? and so I think that there's a lot of reasons for that one being a lot of corruption within that market. But also we're seeing the downfall of a lot of these companies because the corruption is drowning them out much, you know, much faster than anything else. I think that that's going to correct itself over the time over the next.
Albert 00:44:56 But the question is, do you, as a company out there, have the capital to withstand that rain and that that storm? As we're watching, we're keeping an eye on things. We're trying to pivot and do our best to continue to be competitive. But you know, it is a bloodbath out there and it's a fight. And,
Brett 00:45:19 You know, and I think one of the other issues with them is they also issued too many licenses, right? I mean, oh, for sure there's a I heard somebody saying the other day that they issued over a thousand licenses in Michigan and Ohio just went, you know, legal and so, they're going to I think they said they have like 138 licenses. And so, I mean, it's just they just artificially flooded the market with all these licenses. So now, I mean, really the only way to be competitive is to, you know, drop your prices and compete, you know, and all that stuff in that market.
Brett 00:45:56 from a consumer standpoint. Right. I'm just full disclosure, I've never consumed cannabis. Right. It's not that I'm opposed to it. It's not that I. You know, I wouldn't be in this industry if I was. I think there are some health benefits. I think a lot of people can benefit from it, probably myself included on some, on some certain things. but I've just never been really in a position. Right. You know, when I was growing up, it was illegal when I. And then I lived in Florida for a while. They did. It's not legal recreationally there. So really, just in the last two years is really when I've been in an area where it's permissible, it's reasonable. But I have a lot of questions. Right? Like you're talking about like, I want to make sure that if I do, I'm getting the highest quality product that I can and that it's, you know, safe for me to consume, you know, all that stuff. And so, the, the cannabis market as a whole, I think could really learn from consumer education efforts and packaging and, you know, labeling and stuff like that to really make sure that, you know, just from transparency perspective, making sure that we have all the information that we need.
Brett 00:47:05 People like me who are willing to go down that road were willing to, to partake and participate in the market. But we want to do it responsibly and, and make sure that it's, it's a good experience.
Albert 00:47:19 So good operators want you to do that. Right. Good operators want you to have a positive experience so you can come back and say, yeah, this helped me enjoy it. And that's, you know, from our standpoint, that's what we've always been about. Yeah.
Guillermo 00:47:32 To your point earlier about consistency, I mean it only takes one. Brett had his first experience, a really bad experience with that gummy that you mentioned earlier. And like he's turned away for a really long time. And I know I've had some of those bad experiences, but, that that didn't turn me away because I'm not from Florida. Like Brett.
Guillermo 00:47:53 But, we've, we've.
Guillermo 00:47:55 We've talked a lot about, I think this has been a great episode because someone's going to listen into this.
Guillermo 00:48:02 You gave a lot of good information about how to do your research. What are the things that you need to look at everything from the extraction method to the cannabinoids to what you really looking for. And I think someone could really listen into that as well as, you know, what's unique about you and your story in your business is you're backing it up with the researcher. And you know, I think, it's not absolutely necessary for some people, but we just that's really where we are, where we are. We know that cannabis is beneficial, but a lot of people just really need that research, before they can, before they can look into it. And so, that's a lot of great, a lot of great work that you're doing. Thank you for that. Because, you know, that's our goal here, on our podcast is, is to educate, to destigmatize and to help each other. So, I think that educational piece is a is a big piece of, of driving revenue.
Guillermo 00:48:58 Right. Driving extra revenue in a consumer segment that otherwise wouldn't be. Wouldn't be here. That's curious. That's the first ones that have tried cannabis. You know, we're getting close to the end as we're wrapping up. do you have any thoughts on can you share some thoughts on, you know, present cannabis industry market versus what you're predicting for the future, what you what you hope to see in the in the coming years?
Albert 00:49:27 Yeah. you know, the current the current market we've seen kind of unfolding in different states with, you know, the vapes and the flower. And I think that one that becomes obviously more normal. I think what people are going to look for is more specialized dosage forms, that cater to their needs in the future. Right. and, and then on a grander scale. So, you think of walk into a CVS pharmacy, pharmacy or wherever you may go, Walgreens. you know, and you find something that goes on to your knee, for instance, we have that in the industry already, right? But I think it's a lot more effective.
Albert 00:50:07 And so I think we'll see that roll out on a much grander scale. as we start to legitimize cannabis more and remove the different laws that prohibit that and then also think about different ways to create new delivery methods so people can consume, for their purpose. And so, if somebody has an earache, for instance, we might see a dosage form that caters directly to the ear. It helps give relief there, for instance. So, I think more specialized dosage forms for targeted areas is going to be something that's really big. We're going to see a lot more research for diseases, gastrointestinal diseases, for instance, that we're seeing some, some positive, strides in right now, where Crohn's disease as an example. and, and another, diseases that just maybe haven't even been thought about before. So, when I think about the future of cannabis and research, I also think about how to speed up the development, so we can get these out much quicker. And so, you know, a lot of research is being done right now on organoids.
Albert 00:51:16 and so I think it'll be exciting to take cerebral organoids and see how we can create, concoctions of cannabinoids and terpenes and other excipients that can quickly target diseases within humans. And so, I think that that's something that I want to focus on in the next few years that will bring much more rapid development and relief to patients, obviously, but also results to governing bodies. So, we can show that it is an active and safe, right? Safe and effective, obviously the one and two to the steps within it all. So, leveraging that information along with some AI to help model how we can target these diseases, I think is going to be the way of the future. And that's where I planned on kind of focusing in the next few years.
Guillermo 00:52:03 Yeah, that's hugely exciting. And what can happen and continue. We're going to continue sharing those stories like what you shared about your grandmother and that's I think that's what it's going to take, is that people just listen to these stories.
Guillermo 00:52:17 I recently had a friend reach out to me, because she had her mother had cancer, and she was trying to access the Texas Capacity Compassionate Use program. And I was actually able to provide a link for her, and she's like, thank you. It worked. And I was like, wow. actually, nobody had ever reached out to me before and access and been something good here in Texas, you know? And these kinds of stories are just happening everywhere. So, we got to keep sharing them. And I appreciate you sharing some of your personal stories about that. So, you know, thanks again. It was a pleasure having you on the show. before we wrap up, how can people find you? How can people find your brands? What markets are you in? To make sure that you know someone listening and can go Google, find out more about your products and brands and be able to connect with you.
Albert 00:53:08 Yeah. For sure. You can find us in Colorado, Missouri, Michigan, Iowa.
Albert 00:53:16 We will be coming to other states near you soon, but those are the regulated markets that we're currently in. Our brands are batch, which is, our big, heavy hitting, THC brand. we have become, which is a mixture of different cannabinoids as vapes. We also have the new brand, which I mentioned, which is more like a lifestyle brand. You got creams and tinctures and pills in there. and then we have an awareness brand, which is a social equity brand I started a few years ago to help donate funds directly to groups who are focused on combating, some of the different disparities that have been, occurring within black and Latino communities specifically. And others. and so, we've partnered with different groups, and we actually give them money and create new products that are specific to those groups that we can donate money consistently to, over the years. So, you can find us in these different states if you want to find me, I'm on LinkedIn. Albert Gutierrez is my name. our group.
Albert 00:54:12 Or you can also find us at Bud Mary, buddy Emery. Com. And we're on LinkedIn as well under the handle button Mary.
Guillermo 00:54:20 So, but mary.com we'll certainly put that in the show notes. and your LinkedIn profile too. So, people can reach out to you and learn more about all the wonderful things that that you're doing. I just want to thank all the listeners for joining us today, and we'll see everybody next time on the Cannabis Success Show.
Albert 00:54:38 Thanks for having me on, guys.
Outro 00:54:40 Enjoy this podcast. Visit our website Anders cpa.com/virtual CFO cannabis to get more tips and strategy for achieving business success in the cannabis industry.